Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Jenny Li Fowler: Listen to your gut. My gut has served me well in a lot of different
situations. And really, like, don't be reactive. I think part of my superpower in being in a medium
that works so fast and can be so toxic and volatile is that I'm not reactive to any. I am just not
reactive. Give yourself like several beats to look at something and bring people in when you
need.
[00:00:29] Jeff Dillon: Today's guest is Jenny. Jenny Li Fowler, an award winning social media
strategist, author and podcast host. She currently serves as the Director of Social Media
Strategy at MIT where she leads the Institute's digital presence and has grown their following to
over 6 million followers. Jenny brings over two decades of experience across journalism,
corporate communications and higher education. She's also the creator and host of the
acclaimed podcast Confessions of a Higher Ed Social Media Manager, which won a 2025 AVA
Digital Platinum Award.
A frequent speaker at conferences like AMA and Edu Web, and a Social Media Strategies
Summit, Jenny is widely recognized as a thought leader in digital storytelling and strategic
communication. Her dynamic background from newsroom anchor to digital strategist gives her a
unique edge in today's fast paced media landscape.
Well, welcome to the pod, Jenny. It's great to have you here.
[00:01:35] Jenny Li Fowler: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Jeff.
[00:01:37] Jeff Dillon: You've had an incredible journey from TV journalism to being MIT's
director Social media Strategy. What is one surprising moment from that journey that makes you
smile?
[00:01:51] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, I love this question. I've never been asked this question before.
You know, I think that I love being part of a community and you know, when I was a TV reporter
in Hometown usa, I was part of a community. I'm a part of like this higher ed community. And the
thing that makes me smile is when I get recognized. I am always so surprised when people
recognize me or want to meet me. Like I just, I don't understand why, but it just makes me smile
like every single time. And I always hope people will come and chat and say hello or just want to
share a conversation or a cup of coffee. Like, I love that.
[00:02:37] Jeff Dillon: I love that answer. It's fun when people, yeah, they recognize you from,
from your work.
I have to go back. I remember my, my first memory of mit. I was a web director at Northern
Arizona University and I was tasked with building the new website and someone pointed me to.
This was a while back, a couple decades ago. And I realized MIT's brand is innovation so they
could get away with changing the homepage every single day. And it was the coolest thing. But
the navigation didn't really change. It was like, the style and the css. Like, they'd have a new
submission and they'd queue all these new changes up so you'd wake up. And I was checking,
like, what does MIT's web page looks like today? I don't think you can get away with that
anymore, but if anyone could, MIT would.
[00:03:19] Jenny Li Fowler: It took us a while to get away from that model, too, because people loved
it so, so much, and they were so, like, personally attached to it. But it, you know, it wasn't, like,
function, you know, it didn't meet today's audience.
[00:03:33] Jeff Dillon: Right, right. No other school can get away with that. And now, obviously,
no one's doing that.
[00:03:37] Jenny Li Fowler: Right.
[00:03:37] Jeff Dillon: But you've grown MIT's social platforms to over 6 million followers.
What's the secret sauce behind that kind of growth?
[00:03:48] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, I think the secret sauce is. I realized early on that there is no secret
sauce sauce.
I mean, there. I mean, there really is no secret. I think that we are very intentional with every
thing that goes into our posts. You know, we're very intentional with the captions. We're very
intentional with the images and how it looks and which platforms we're on. And I like to think that
it's just, you know, that attention to detail and being meticulous and caring immensely about the
product and making sure everything ties back to, you know, the goals and what we're trying to
do.
[00:04:28] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, I love that. I can. On a smaller level. This podcast is a year old now.
[00:04:33] Jenny Li Fowler: Oh, congratulations.
[00:04:34] Jeff Dillon: Over. Yeah. Yeah. So been going a year weekly. I don't do Christmas
week, but I haven't missed a week. And to say, like, it's a lot of hard work. I feel like when I
started, I'm like, I'm okay at this, but I don't know, I'm not that great. But if you just keep at it, you
know, all of a sudden, some episodes hit, and then two Saturdays ago, we had more downloads
than the entire month of October last year. So it was like, wow. Like, it just is a lot of things that
add up. So there's no secret sauce. That might be our sound bite. I like that.
[00:05:01] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, you just have to keep at it, you know?
[00:05:03] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. And so tell me, how does storytelling evolve in the world of higher
ed social media, especially at a place like mit?
[00:05:12] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, very slowly.
Institutions of higher ed. It's funny because I say that they're really big ships and they take time
to turn, but from the social perspective, I think we're driven by how our audience likes to
Consume content. So I think a lot of times the content is the same, but again, like what the focus
on our captioning or the text in the posts or the types of images and how we resize the images. I
know these are like really minute details, but like it's. We always try to optimize for how the
audience likes to consume the content. And so that's how we sort of evolve how we tell the
story. The story in the tactics, I think, yes.
[00:06:01] Jeff Dillon: Are there different types of content students expect and want from certain
platforms where maybe they don't. Certain types they don't want?
[00:06:10] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, it just definitely feels that way. You know, not all vertical video
platforms are the same. You know, like TikTok is very, very different. And the type of content that
our audience expects from us on TikTok is different. It's more aligned with what the TikTok
audience likes to consume on that channel. Right. Reels feels more aligned with what our
audience is used to seeing from us. But yeah, they are not all alike.
[00:06:39] Jeff Dillon: You recently won the AVA Digital Award for your podcast. I did
Confessions of a Higher Ed Social Media Manager. What inspired the show?
[00:06:48] Jenny Li Fowler: Well, I think it's just that there was a need. You know, a lot of times higher
ed social media managers, we're like one man bands and people always are surprised when
they say this, but that includes me. Like, I. I literally am doing it myself right now. And I think that
there's a lot for us to learn from each other and a lot of commiserating to do and I think that
we're teammates for each other.
So I just thought that there was like a need for. From it. And, you know, I've been doing it
enough that I've made a lot of mistakes and I've learned a lot of things and I want people to get
where I am faster in their journey within this career. So I'd like to share what I've learned.
[00:07:31] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. And Jenny goes to a lot of conferences that I go to and her
sessions that she presents at Fill up and they're popular.
[00:07:37] Jenny Li Fowler: Oh, thank you.
[00:07:38] Jeff Dillon: Tell us, what are some of the misconceptions people have about
managing social media in academia?
[00:07:45] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, I think there is a little bit of a generational gap and I hate to say that
because, like, it doesn't mean that you can't do social because of your certain age. You know
what I mean? I'm in the middle of my years.
I'm in the middle years now, so I. And I'm still doing it. So it's Just like, I think you have to have
an affinity for it. But it's just funny because, like, if you have never done it, you don't actually
know what goes into it. And I think a lot of people think it's like simple and easy, and that's a
huge misunderstanding because it is not simple. There's so much planning. There's like these
spreadsheets and calendars and timetables and. And honestly, like, posting a post sometimes
takes me, you know, there's no just posting it up there. It's not. You're not just posting.
Sometimes it takes me a half an hour to post a single post on a single platform because I'm like,
again, we're very intentional about it and thoughtful about it. And sometimes you just. I have fat
fingers sometimes. And you have to do it within platform and it makes it difficult. So it's not easy,
it's not fast, it's not smart. As simple as people think. I think that's the biggest one.
[00:08:52] Jeff Dillon: Are there any tools you use? I know there. I used to be more aware of
these like hootsuite or anything that help you push a different platform. Any tips you can give on
some of the tools that help you with that process?
[00:09:03] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, I don't love the automation, but I do love, like efficiency. And the
content management systems out there right now are very good. And I feel like it's just what
your preference is like. Hootsuite has a layout and user experience that some might prefer.
Sprout Social has one that some might prefer. There's so many right now. Like there are
dozens, but I think they're all fine. I just think you have to find one that works for you. Yeah,
exactly. So that's really helpful. And there are a lot of editing platforms that are great. Like, I
happen to really like Cap Cut right now, especially in the vertical is first and mobile is first era
that we're in. I feel like there's a lot of really great captioning options out there now that are in
platform.
So the platforms themselves have gotten very sophisticated in that way.
So, yeah, definitely use what you can. And there's a lot of free ones out there that are really
helpful.
[00:10:05] Jeff Dillon: So I'm. I'm curious. I want to kind of draw a parallel from what I really
spent some time over the last 15 years working on in social. And that's the mobile revolution.
Right. In 2008, we didn't even have the App Store and that's when the iPhone came out. And so
I really. I was in a Web director job. And that kept me going for almost another decade because
we had this mobile app and we didn't have much governance around it. And in higher ed, if you
don't have much governance around something, you can either go for it and get your hand
slapped along the way and get a lot done or, or you can just kind of wait and be shy and be like,
oh, I need governance place before I can do this. And I was more of the former. I'm like, oh
great, let's go develop this mobile app. You know, I'll check with the right people, you know, to
get things done. But I could go move a lot quicker.
[00:10:49] Jenny Li Fowler: Totally.
[00:10:50] Jeff Dillon: But fast forward a decade and it just, everything slows down once
everyone realizes, oh, we need to control that space.
Maybe your team's grown, you're more aware of say social media.
How did it evolve over, you know, you're kind of, you might be one of the OGs of being a social
media manager. How long have you been doing this?
[00:11:08] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah.
[00:11:09] Jeff Dillon: What was it like as far as, you know, the attitude and governance around
it to how it is now?
[00:11:14] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, it's, it's really funny, Jeff, because it's weird being recognized as like
one of the long standing ones because like I've been called og, I've been called old hand, I've
been called pioneer. But yeah, no, I love it. It's lovely to be recognized as like, I guess someone
who has a lot of experience. And it's true there was a time where really we could kind of do what
we want and we didn't have to ask anyone.
[00:11:41] Jeff Dillon: No one was looking.
[00:11:42] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, no, no one was looking. And it's true, like people are watching. And
not only that, like leadership is watching. And so I think for me the cool thing is I sort of
developed and matured in the role that I am in. As the role was developing and mature, like the
role kind of developed and matured along with me, me and then there's a lot of trust that I've
built since I've been at MIT, since like for 10, I'm going on 10 years. And so my approval process
is still very nimble and there's a lot of trust there. But I imagine if I were to take on a, another role
in a different organization, I'm not sure people would be like, oh, it's okay, just, you know, use
your best judgment, Jenny. And do. I mean, maybe, I don't know, I guess, you know, but starting
out as like a specialist, I don't think that exists anymore.
[00:12:32] Jeff Dillon: You know, is your team changed as far as the number of people or what
they're doing, or is it just you or what does that look like?
[00:12:40] Jenny Li Fowler: Jeff? I've shrunk. My team has shrunk. Okay. So to be honest, I've never
had any direct reports, but I am a part of the Institute Office of Communication.
So within the institute we have like video producers, graphic designers, writers, and they all do
the thing and they all make sure I get what I need for our, you know, that we get to put on our
social media channels. Channels. But I don't have any direct reports. And it's tough. It's really
tough.
[00:13:06] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, well, I think that's common. That even gives you more kudos to
what you get done. If you're doing this all along, you're kind of a victim of your own success. Like
you're doing great.
[00:13:16] Jenny Li Fowler: So I did have one woman that didn't report to me, but a portion of her time
was dedicated to helping to manage some of our channels.
And she actually recently left mit. Not because of anything bad. She had a positive thing, you
know, to pursue, so she left. I miss her very much. But now it literally is just me. It literally is just
me. So I think part of it is like I really have to prioritize. Yeah, prioritization is like so key now.
[00:13:47] Jeff Dillon: And now a word from our sponsor.
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So with this fast paced environment, because within kind of the, the ship of higher ed that does
move kind of slow, social media is kind of the fast paced and reactive part of that often. How do
you build a sustainable long term strategy within that environment?
[00:14:32] Jenny Li Fowler: So thank you for that question because like the, actually the honest
answer is I wrote a whole book on this. It's like organic social media, how to build flourishing
communities online. And honestly, I think the backbone or the foundation of your strategy should
be. Be the same. It shouldn't be reactive. Right. Like there might be tactics that are a little bit
reactive, but our foundation, it's rock solid, it's aligned with our goals and that really hasn't
changed. Yeah. Since I walked in the door.
[00:15:03] Jeff Dillon: Well, sometimes things are reactive. Right, Things like there's crisis
communication.
[00:15:09] Jenny Li Fowler: Oh gosh.
[00:15:09] Jeff Dillon: How do you handle crisis communication on platforms that move faster
than traditional PR channel?
[00:15:15] Jenny Li Fowler: Totally. So I think the most important thing during a crisis is for social and
the social media team to listen and monitor. That's like our crucial thing. We're not saying
anything. We're not getting a back and forth with people. But for us, I have a very quick line of
communication to leadership to share what I'm seeing online.
So it has a little bit of like, trust because I literally can just email the chief of staff. My supervisor
is okay with me just directly going to them with things that I think they need to see. But there's
also like editorial judgment because it's not everything. Right. You have to sort of know what is
important and what's key, what they need to see to help them make any critical decisions.
Because I'm in that aspect. I'm not the decision maker. I'm not.
But I'm a cog in the whole machine that helps them give, that gives them information that
decision makers need to have a full picture.
[00:16:14] Jeff Dillon: Right, right, right. What metrics do you consider most important?
When you're looking at all your different channels and maybe trying to decide which ones are,
you need to put the most effort in.
[00:16:26] Jenny Li Fowler: Jeff, I've built a career on looking at engagements.
Yeah. Like, so the public interactions. Because I never want to rely on metrics that, that I might
lose. Like, say you're using a fancy platform and then your budget gets cut from it and then I no
longer have access to that. I never want to feel that way. I always want to feel consistent. Right.
So I rely heavily on the metrics that are actually available publicly on the platforms. But the
engagements, when you're building community, the engagements are like, you know, an instant
feedback loop. Because when you get a, like your community is saying, I like, I like this. Show
me more of this content. And that's what I try to do, you know?
[00:17:08] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:17:10] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah.
[00:17:10] Jeff Dillon: Do you have any, how do I say, horror stories about comments, comment
threads that have gone awry or anything?
[00:17:19] Jenny Li Fowler: So we are very conservative in the interactions. And again, it's just me
because of resources, we're not going back and forth. But I will tell you that does happen. I'll
share a horror story with you.
So one evening I posted scheduled. So that's automated. Like I scheduled a post for when the
sun sets here in Cambridge and it's just a benign post. That was a nice picture of like dusk of
campus and it said, have a great weekend, everyone. And it posted. But I mean, this is what
happened. That's why I don't like automation a lot. So it just so happened that Ruth Bader
Ginsburg had passed away. And the announcement of her death was like one minute before my
post was scheduled to go out. So it's like the announcement was made, the post went out. Of
course I'm seeing the whole Ruth Bader. I'm like, oh my God. And I'm personally bummed that,
you know, she had passed away. And I'm like, ugh. And then I'm like, my post. And so I like went
back and looked at it and sure enough, it was like in the four minutes, it was long enough for it to
say, bad timing. No, not good. You know, and so, yeah, so I deleted it. I mean, it's. There's no
reason for you to keep it up.
[00:18:38] Jeff Dillon: Like.
[00:18:38] Jenny Li Fowler: Yes, I know, that's what I'm saying. Like it was such a regular post in. Any
other day would have been fine. It's just the timing. And so, yeah, it's like, that's what makes
social really challenging.
[00:18:51] Jeff Dillon: I can see that that's like, that's a hard one. Like I'll write like a story, a
news related post and I want it to go on LinkedIn. I'm on a Friday, but I'm like, I want this to go
Monday. But something happens over the weekend where it's like, it moves so fast. It's like that's
not even news anymore. So I've had that happen bad. But it's like, gosh, you gotta keep up.
[00:19:09] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah. Oh, I know, but I was criticized. I mean, well, you know. Yeah, but
it's okay. I deleted it and it's fine.
[00:19:15] Jeff Dillon: You know, when should schools consider paid media versus organic? Are
there certain tips you've learned or are you full organic or how does.
[00:19:25] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, that's tough. For the most part we are full organic, but we have
pockets that do paid. Like our Department of Open learning where they have this plethora of like
free online resources.
Of course, our school of management, Sloan, does a lot of advertising as well, you know, digital
advertising. But it makes sense because business schools are highly, highly competitive. And
that's a totally different audience for, for say like the mit, like the undergraduate population that
never has a lack of applicants year after year. So I think you just have to know how. Who's your
audience? What are you after? Is it a competitive field? Is there an advantage to paid? And yes,
I will say there are situations where it is. And then it's helpful. It's helpful to have a professional
that knows paid well because that's a very distinct. Yeah, that's a niche itself. So in that case you
want to maybe go with an agency or. Or bring on someone that specializes in that. Yeah.
[00:20:28] Jeff Dillon: So maybe have a real purpose and target and like really test.
[00:20:32] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah.
[00:20:33] Jeff Dillon: Before you would go, I mean, I would take that.
[00:20:35] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah. That's where I think organic and paid should partner. Because what
does well in organic is only already proven. Right. So it will do well as a paid, you know, as a
paid campaign as well. So.
[00:20:48] Jeff Dillon: So what lessons from your time in journalism still shape how you
approach content today?
[00:20:54] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, so I was in broadcast journalism and we had to write very briefly. So
writing briefly has been an asset. And just the storytelling, it's all stories. Like I tell people, I'm
still a storyteller. It's just a different medium, you know, so, yeah, for sure. The writing.
[00:21:11] Jeff Dillon: We've spoken at many industry events.
What's a recurring theme or concern you hear from other higher ed social pros out there?
[00:21:21] Jenny Li Fowler: I mean the strategy aspect is always when people want to hear, you
know, talk to me about or hear from another one, is gaining leadership buy in. That is huge still.
And I just feel like, man, like it's 2025. Do we still need to convince leadership that social media
is like important? But I'm amazed that's. I'm like, wow, there's still a lot of work to be done. So
yeah, that's a big one. And just convincing people of the need to have. If you're gonna actually
make social media priority, the importance of having like a social media manager, like you
should have a social media professional, you know.
[00:22:02] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. At this point it can't be a side job. It really is at least a.
[00:22:08] Jenny Li Fowler: Exactly. But it is still for a lot of like departments, labs, centers. Yeah.
[00:22:13] Jeff Dillon: So they're not quite there yet. So here's a question, the million dollar
question everybody's waiting for. They're always asking, there's so many platforms out there.
How do you decide where to focus your energy? If you have to just pick one or two or. What are
the big ones? Jenny?
[00:22:28] Jenny Li Fowler: Okay, so you're thinking at this point what I would think are the two big
ones. Is that what you're sort of. Yeah, I actually would say the second is a little bit depending on
the audience. But the first one, I really would say it's LinkedIn. LinkedIn has really sort of
bubbled up as a primary social media platform. The second I would say either Instagram or
TikTok, but it really depends on if you're going for that like younger gen Z and younger gen Alpha
audience or if you're going for more like Professional, maybe alum, not like, you know,
graduated from like is the Instagram crowd. So that, that's what I would say.
[00:23:10] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, yeah. No, no real surprises for me there. I mean, LinkedIn is a little
bit of surprise for me.
[00:23:14] Jenny Li Fowler: I know.
[00:23:15] Jeff Dillon: But yeah, that's my go to platform. That's where I put everything. I'm
wondering, like, I heard this at that conference I recently saw you at in July at Maine at Edu
Webb. There was a presentation, I don't know if you saw it, about trying to think who, who put it
out there, but basically Reddit was tagged as the. One of the top channels. I don't call them a
social media channel. It's a platform out there. And I've kind of known it's been growing, but
really everyone's talking now about Reddit being like the place where students are kind of
gossiping about schools and saying like, you know, that's kind of their. One of their channels. So
have you heard much of that's.
[00:23:48] Jenny Li Fowler: Interesting that you don't see that as a social media platform because I
would say that it is social, but I would say Reddit has been the place for a while and I think that
now, like, we're all catching onto it. And the thing with Reddit is like, and I think this is why
students like, it is like you have to be sort of a savvy Redditor to understand and get the
platform, you know, and Reddit, just as the, like, they don't like brands, they don't want you to
push your own message.
Everything has to be.
[00:24:20] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, it has to feel organic.
[00:24:22] Jenny Li Fowler: Exactly. And so that's why the students like it so much and that it's a
great, like, I've been saying this for years, it's a great platform for listening and monitoring
because you can really get a sense of what people are saying about your brand or students are
saying about your school. Yep.
[00:24:38] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. I need to get more familiar with it here.
[00:24:42] Jenny Li Fowler: It's hard. I will be the first to admit I'm not a Redditor. It's not naturally my
thing.
[00:24:48] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. It's like you have to go through some steps to figure out where to
go. It doesn't automatically come up in a, in a basic search.
[00:24:54] Jenny Li Fowler: The interface is not like it doesn't appeal to me. But I also know that it is a
great platform. And luckily we do have some very avid Redditors that are my colleagues and
they do let me know if there's a conversation that I need to be like, privy of. Yeah.
[00:25:12] Jeff Dillon: How do you view AI being a part of a social media strategy. Are you using
AI? Is that. Is that something you're looking at for the future?
[00:25:19] Jenny Li Fowler: And I don't know why you wouldn't. I mean, okay, so first of all, I am not,
like, cutting and pasting anything directly from AI onto any platform at all. That's not happening.
But it has helped us, like, sort of adapt our tone to be a little bit more simpler because it's been
very academic the way that we've talked. So it's helped us do that. I. This past, my past intern, I
like, there are content management systems where you can download posts and look at the. So
I tagged all of her content, like, downloaded that she created and posted, downloaded it and
uploaded it to ChatGPT and said, can you give me a summary of this content? And it was
amazing. It was like, here are the strengths, here are the, you know, the successes, here's the
room for growth, here are the opportunities. And, yeah, I think, like, especially for analyzing data,
I think it's super, super helpful.
[00:26:18] Jeff Dillon: Yeah. There's so many, so many ways. I love your examples. A lot of
schools are really leveraging these Personas, you know, synthetic clones of a student and
running messages by them. Like almost having your own little, you know, test environment,
which is.
[00:26:33] Jenny Li Fowler: There's so many ways. I know we've just scratched the surface, but, yes,
it's an asset.
[00:26:38] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, so many ways.
[00:26:40] Jenny Li Fowler: I just wanted to add, there's something that someone. It was a
presentation that we saw when it was at Edu Web, and the person was like, electricity is not
going to take your job. Like, if you're a barber, electricity is not going to take your job. But if
you're a barber with scissors, the barber with electric razor might take your job.
[00:26:59] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, right, right. It's a great analogy.
[00:27:01] Jenny Li Fowler: Yeah, I know. I thought that was a great analogy. Like, AI is not going to
take your job. But if there's someone that is, like, really sophisticated in their use with AI that can
help them, something to think about. I was like, whoa. Yeah, I thought that was really smart.
[00:27:14] Jeff Dillon: Yeah, I like that one. Well, if you could give one piece of advice to
someone starting a career in social media strategy today, what would that be?
[00:27:23] Jenny Li Fowler: You know, I would say, listen to your gut. My gut has served me well in a
lot of different situations. And really, like, don't be reactive. I think part of my superpower in being
in a medium that works so fast and can be so toxic and volatile is that I'm not reactive to any. I
am just not reactive. Give yourself like several beats to look at something and bring people in
when you need.
So I think that's important.
[00:27:53] Jeff Dillon: That's a superpower that is great to have in your role. Jenny, I love it.
Thank you for being here. I'm going to put links to your site so people can get like right.
[00:28:03] Jenny Li Fowler: Love it.
[00:28:04] Jeff Dillon: Get your book. Check out your blog that in the show notes.
[00:28:07] Jenny Li Fowler: It was a pleasure. Thank you.
[00:28:08] Jeff Dillon: So thanks again. It's a great time.
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